Geordie Tait Interview Transcribed – Pt 2

Disclaimer: I am offering, without commentary, the transcript of the Geordie Tait interview as a service to the Gamergate community and is not intended for commercial use.  As it is rather long, I will be posting it in installments.  I have faithfully transcribed the conversation to the best of my abilities and will attempt to complete the transcription so that the information is available in a timely manner.  The opinions and statements made by individuals within reflect their own opinions and ideas and are not reflective of Cirsova or any other individuals.  The transcription begins with Geordie Tait’s arrival on the stream and will end shortly after his departure.  The full audio interview can be found here.

King Of Pol: If Sargon’s not ready then I’ll…  Okay, Sargon’s not ready, I’m gonna bring Socks in here.

Geordie Tait: Who is this?

KOP: Socks?  This is Rina – Socks – she does daily videos on youtube of what’s going on in the gamergate world and what’s going on about it, just articles and stuff like that.  She does a pretty good job of it.  I usually do the daily news with her on a weekly basis.

GT: That sounds pretty cool.

KOP: She just wants to talk to you about it, and I’ll bring on Sargon right after.

GT: Alright.

KOP: What’s up buddy?

Socks: Hello.

KOP: Hey, socks. Socks, Geordie, Geordie, Socks.

Socks: Hello, Geordie.

GT: Hello.  Hey, I recognize that picture.  Someone with that anime picture has been telling me to fuck myself for weeks.  Probably the whole week.  I don’t’ know if it was you.

Socks: Not me.

GT: Okay. No big deal.

KOP: Okay, so, Socks, I know you had some questions for him in here I’ll let you go ahead and ask.

Socks: I did.  But first, I wanted to reference the Fine Young Capitalists, first I wanted to make clear that I put the… I will link it in the skype chat so you can do some reading if you want.  That’s totally up to you.  If you scroll down it details their reality, they believe in the patriarchy theory.  They are radfems, I’ve spoken with several of the members of the Fine Young Capitalists at length, and what they do have to say is that women are valuable and tech companies aren’t hiring them.  So, they’re trying to bypass that and promote women in video game production.

GT: That sounds great.

Socks: it is, and…

GT: How could they possibly be involved with gamergate, who are just such a giant group of woman-hating-assholes?

Socks: But we’re not a giant group of woman-hating assholes, it’s only your perception…

GT: You absolutely are.

Socks: Oh, I beg to differ.  Um, I do actually have a couple of questions for you if you don’t mind.  How in the same breath can you list actual real life issues that are affecting women all over the world and have been affecting women throughout history – I agree with you there – and, you know, one of the greatest tragedies to ever occur in the, you know, span of human history, to the greatest ethnic cleansing ever and then go on to advocate the return of those said death camps to be used against members of gamergate and to belittle, dehumanize and erase the thoughts and opinion and agency of thousands of women and minorities who do support gamergate on the basis of ethics of video games journalism and the industry as a whole?

GT: Well, it’s pretty simple.  I disagree with every one of Gamergate’s tenets.  I believe it’s an evil organization that is doing nothing but dragging women down.  Any feminists that are participating in it are basically sabotaging the overall cause, in my opinion.  And, for that reason, I am totally comfortable with saying give it, I’m fine with everyone in gamergate, you know, rolling off a cliff like a bunch of lemmings, and you know, unfortunately some of those people are going to be…

KOP: Geordie.  I don’t mean to interject, but can you explain how they’re evil though?  Did you find the links yet or anything you can show why we’re evil or explain in detail?  I think a lot of people want to know why we’re evil, if you think that way.

GT: If you guys don’t realize it, then me showing you is not going to make you realize it.

Socks: No, no, that’s not how, no no, I’m sorry, Geordie, that’s not how reality works.  If you are accusing us of being an evil organization – we’re not an organization, we are a consumer revolt; at best, we’re a movement in some cases, but an organization? No, and there’s no requirements for membership.  Anyone can walk up and slap a tweet up on twitter with the gamergate hashtag.  I have not seen any, like, what… Inherently evil or actively misogynistic tendencies from anyone in gamergate.

GT: Oh, wow, you have not seen any actively misogynistic tendencies from anyone in gamergate? I don’t even think…

Socks: No, I haven’t.  I have seen…

KOP: Hold on socks, hold on socks.

Socks:. …ignorant sexism, but go on.

GT: unbelievable.

KOP: Hold on.  If this is the case then that’s why I said ‘can you provide proof’, trust but verify.

Socks: Please.

KOP: Because if you can show us the misogynist and explain why it is evil, inherently evil misogynistic and give us an understanding.

GT: Let me just. Okay. What do you mean I?  I have to explain why misogyny is evil? It just is.

KOP: No…

Socks: No, no, we know misogyny is bad.

KOP: … I’m asking if you can show us…

GT: Alright, let me try, let me just take a quick look through the gamergate tag.

KOP: Okay, no problem.

Socks: Please, do.

KOP: That’s all I’m saying is if you can show us, and give us a link and say this is why you guys are evil, then it gives us a better understanding of what it is that makes gamergate evil.

GT: Let me try one thing first.  Would you say that it’s fair to say that gamergate generally is against the various efforts and statements of Anita Sarkeesian?

Socks: Anita Sarkeesian is intellectually dishonest and does present flawed feminist theory.  Just like Jack Thompson presented flawed theory on how video games perpetuate violence in society.  But it was totally fine to send Jack Thompson death threats and a lot of them actually actionable and he had to be under armed guard. But go on.

GT: What do you mean ‘But, go on’?

Socks: No, no, do go on, we do disagree, a lot of us disagree with what Anita Sarkeesian says, it is true that…

GT: Okay, in general, then gamergate…

KOP: Hold on.  Go ahead, Geordie.

GT: I believe that a lot of people.  When she asked for X amount of money and then out of nowhere people donated – does anyone remember what the final number was?

KOP: It was a little over 100k, go ahead.

GT: A little over 100k which just blew everyone’s expectations out of the water.  Now, me personally, and a lot of other people that I talked to thought that that was a sign of a silent majority that were so tired of just the general bullshit having to do, y’know, the, of women in video games, the many different shortcomings that needed to be rectified to have them as in the positions narrative, and, uh, otherwise that they should be.  So that’s why she got all that money.  I’m sure she was completely surprised by it and I’m sure that she didn’t have the expertise to use $100,000.  But I don’t care.

KOP: I just have to say, though, getting money doesn’t make your ideology right.  Lenin killed and took over and created communism, but that didn’t mean communism was right just because people thought it was a good idea at the time.

GT: Well, I think she’s right.  I think she’s right, so…

KOP: That’s a fair assessment, but that doesn’t mean it is right, just means you think that.

GT: Jesus Christ, I know that, that’s common sense, but I think it’s right.

KOP: What does  that…

GT: Because I think it’s right, and morally correct and very important and because you’re… the gamergate organization generally is against her efforts, and you know, has tried to sabotage her in various ways or, you know, I don’t know what I would call it. I’ve got to apologize because my vocabulary is not where it should be, not only have I been awake for 24 hours…

KOP: It’s okay, man, you don’t have to.

GT: Okay, so, let me just finish my point.  Because I believe she’s right, absolutely with all of my heart, I have no doubt, I’m not going to change my mind, no one can ever change it.  Because I believe that and because gamergate is, in general, against her efforts.  I believe gamergate is evil because I believe she is good.  I believe she is a force of absolute good and thus I believe gamergate is a force of evil.

Socks: okay, let me, for one second.

KOP: Hold on, socks, I have to ask… But Geordie, disagreeing with what Anita Sarkeesian believes in, her ideology or ideologue, that doesn’t mean that gamergate is evil.  They just disagree with what she has to say.

GT: No.  That’s Not true.  It’s not like she’s saying is saying that she enjoys sprite over 7up. She’s saying that women deserve X things that they’ve been denied, and gamergate is saying “No, they don’t, fuck ‘em.”

Socks: No, that is not what gamergate is…

KOP: She’s not really saying that, though.

GT: Again, that’s where we disagree again, I’m saying that you’re saying that.

KOP: Let’s not butter this, let’s be detailed.  She states that there is sexism in video games and the damsel in distress trope is a real thing, that if you play a game and save Princess Peach in that extent then you can be inherently misogynist or sexist in real life.  Now let’s use that in comparison of video game violence vs. real world violence; we had many studies on that by scientists and they were peer reviewed many times, over and over again, and actually suggested, studies showed many times over that it’s proof factual that the only thing that video games has ever adhered to is possible gambling addiction types or escapism and not any actual video game violence.  It actually curbed violence in statistical scores.

GT: Wait.  Good.  I agree.  It doesn’t cause violence.  But okay, where was the peer reviewed, show me the peer reviewed paper that studied misogyny.

KOP: Okay, give me a minute on that, Geordie.  I’ll pull up about 10 different statistics.  Socks, you can do it, while I’m discussing.  But what I’m saying is video games do not make people kill people in real life, why would me saving Princess Peach make me hate women or be sexist toward women or be misogynistic toward women in real life?  You can’t have your cake and eat it to, it does not work.

GT: Yeah, you…  I’m not having cake and eating it too, I’m.

KOP: It’s a metaphor.

GT: I know.  I’m using your same metaphor.  I know it’s metaphor.  Violence is, I’m having cake and I’m having, you know…

Socks: Oh, you guys, no, Jesus fucking Christ.  Here’s the line: if video games don’t make you a crazy psychopath, going out to kill people, how do they then make you a crazy misogynist out to oppress women?

GT: It’s more subtle than that.

Socks: How does it reinforce the patriarchy theory in society, then, how does it perpetuate that?

GT: It’s really straight forward.  I mean, it’s a straightforward and subtle, you know, impact on society.

KOP: You’re saying that violence in video game is nothing compared to being sexist and misogynistic. We can attribute misogyny to real world violence easily.  Look at domestic violence.  A prime example, if you want to be stereotypical, is “My dinner is cold, bitch,” or things like that.  But that is real world violence.

GT: Yep.

KOP: Because obviously the response to that would be, what. He would hit his wife, right?

GT: Yeah, but that’s caused by misogyny, not the video game.  0

KOP: What I’m saying is, if video game violence does not create real world violence, then games, you saving a princess, is not going to make you sexist or misogynistic or start…

GT: How do you know that, they’re two different things?

KOP: It’s not that very often, if one thing does not adhere to real world attribute, then another will not, it is kind of a blanket thing, you can look at it all the way down the (unintelligible), it doesn’t matter.  It doesn’t change anything.  Like I said, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.  If one thing does not do it, the other will not. It just doesn’t affect that.  Video games do not make you do things in real life unless you were already mentally unhinged.  It’s the same thing as I used with the John Lennon statement, what happened to him.  A book will not make you go out and shoot people if you read it unless you are mentally unstable to begin with.  Then there is a 3rd party involved, so you cannot just say that, it does not work that way.

GT: Well, I believe that there might be some sort of subconscious impact, but it doesn’t actually matter because the video games, just like the movies that have objectionable content in terms of misogyny or, you know, picture sets, or whatever the fuck.  Y’know, magazines.  They reflect society, they don’t create it, you know.

Socks: Exactly, I agree.

GT: Okay.

Socks: Art reflects society, yeah.

GT: Well that’s what she’s doing and, of course, it’s full of fucking bullshit.

KOP: But that’s art.

Socks: But it’s there because that’s what in our society.

GT: Yeah.  We should fix that.

Socks: Absolutely.

KOP: But to get back onto gamergate for just a second.  Geordie, you’re talking about Anita Sarkeesian’s stuff like that, and there’s a lot of things I have to say to that, and one thing I really want to know, from your opinion, since you said you follow her so much, is, you know, we live in a free market society; you know what a free market is?

GT: Uh, I have a basic idea.

KOP: A free market society system, which is what we have now in the US and many other places around the world, anywhere you really go, for the most part, means that whatever… the consumer dictates what the market is, i.e.  if I like your bread – say you have a farm and you make bread – if I like your bread, I will buy your bread.  If I don’t like your bread, I won’t buy it.  If it’s something that I want or I like, I will buy it.  And the market will dictate what the market dictates, meaning the consumer will dictate what they like and don’t like.  So, with that being said, anything can be thrown into the market, anything at all, anything is subjective, in the market to be tested and people can like it or dislike it depending on if they want it or not.

GT: Yep

KOP:  So that’s what the free market system is.  A lot of people say this all the time, but if there’s so many problems with video games, and just as there’s so many problems with gamers, and you guys, as Leigh Alexander’s article said “gamers are dead, gamers are over”, and you want a different demographic, you want a broader demographic, right?  From what I’ve interviewed, another anti-gamergate person, he said video game players, or gamers plus was another one, why not make your guy’s own type of video games for that (unintelligible)?  No one’s stopping you.  Just use the money and do it.  Wouldn’t that suggest that?  Since it is a free market, you’re allowed to do that.  No one’s going to tell you not to do that.  Why not just make your own video games to adhere to what you believe in?

GT: I mean, there’s lots of reasons for that.  I mean, there are publishers, right, you’re going to… you’re going to get more backing, better staff, etc., better distribution if you’re able to be distributed by a major game company, and if you’re game, that is, you know, “yay”.

KOP: Well, it’s…

GT: Yay, it’s good for us, they might not like that subject matter.

KOP: Well, let’s use Anita Sarkeesian for example.  She’s gotten tours at EA, she’s gotten awards, as you will, and all this other stuff for being so great.  I mean, she literally is affecting Mirror’s Edge 2, let’s be honest.  She changed the controlling aspect of it; they had to stop what they were doing to change the controls for it because she didn’t like how the controls felt.  She also tested the, uh, I can’t remember the name of it.  Oculus Rift or whatever.  I mean, I think that if she wanted it, it could have happened.  So, like I said, who’s stopping them or the anti-gamergate side from making the games that they’re so angry about.  There’s no one stopping them, so why not make them?  If the…

GT: Oh, god, you said there’s no one stopping us.  Take a look at the fucking chat.

KOP: Chat isn’t stopping you from making a game.

GT: Yeah, they are.

KOP: How? They’re just talking.  They can’t stop you.  If you want to go make a game based on….

GT: Oh, oh, really? Okay, well, I guess there’s no reason for anyone to, uh, say anything, you know, like, when I posted those essays on my facebook, immediately they became under review for having nudity in them, which they didn’t have.  Because people were trying to get the essays taken down.  And that is the way that gamergate affects anything they don’t like.

KOP: But do you have solid evidence that gamergate did that?  Did somebody use the hashtag in a tweet and say “look what I did”?

GT: I mean, I’m sure that it was someone with a similar mindset to gamergate.

KOP: But it’s assumption, not solid evidence, correct?

GT: Oh, for Christ’s sake, I can look at anyone in gamergate and know that they’re a fucking asshole.

Socks: Look at me.

KOP: Hold on, socks.

Socks: No.

KOP: I think we’re going to bring in Sargon here in a minute.

Socks: No, no, I have to leave if you bring Sargon in, dude, I’m not going to 3-way tag-team this dude, so…

KOP: No problem, I’ll let you ask a few more questions, Socks. But let’s take a quick break, because I’ve got to step up real quick and do something.

Socks: Yeah, Just wanna…

KOP: And then we’ll go, so I’ll be back in like 2 minutes, and we’ll come right back here.  That sound good for everybody?

Socks: Okay.

GT: Yep

KOP: Okay, cool, cool, we’ll be right back, guys.

Transcript will continue after return from 2 minute break/music interlude.

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