Geordie Tait Interview Transcribed – Pt 3

Disclaimer: I am offering, without commentary, the transcript of the Geordie Tait interview as a service to the Gamergate community and is not intended for commercial use.  As it is rather long, I will be posting it in installments.  I have faithfully transcribed the conversation to the best of my abilities and will attempt to complete the transcription so that the information is available in a timely manner.  The opinions and statements made by individuals within reflect their own opinions and ideas and are not reflective of Cirsova or any other individuals.  The transcription begins with Geordie Tait’s arrival on the stream and will end shortly after his departure.  The full audio interview can be found here.

[break in transcript]

KOP: Alright, I am back.  Sorry, I had to get a refill and use the restroom.

GT: Welcome back.

KOP: Just let everybody clear the air for a little bit.  For everybody just joining in, we are talking with Geordie Tait, the writer.  He is a freelance writer as of now, but he was a writer for StarCityGames.  And stuff like that.  We’re just discussing his messages, what he had to say and his stance in gamergate thus far.  We have also Socks here, you guys know who she is, I do the daily news with her.  Now Socks, go ahead and ask a few more questions.  Geordie, if you have any questions you want to ask us in response to this, while she’s still here, you’re more than welcome to.  I will say this, though, I will moderate what is being said, so if it gets too heated, I will interrupt.  Is that okay?

GT: That’s fine with me.

KOP: Okay.  Alright, so go ahead, Socks.  I think she’s still away actually.

GT: Okay, well, um.  I’m sure she’ll be back soon.

KOP: She’ll be back.  If you have any questions for me, you’re more than welcome to.

GT: I just have general comment about the tenor of this interview.  Um, we’re kind of hamstrung by the fact that we have really fundamental disagreements about…

KOP: Right…

GT: about certain things.

KOP: Understandable.

GT: Um, you know, I’m not going get… you have…  I can tell that you are a skilled rhetor.

KOP: A what?

GT: Rhetor, as in rhetoric.

KOP: Oh, okay.

GT: Orator. Um.  And you probably are great at steering people away from the things that they believe and toward what you believe, but I mean, even if I can’t articulate perfectly, even if I don’t have examples at hand, I have closely examined my convictions and the reasons for them, and I have made my decision.

KOP: Oh, that’s fine.  I want you to understand, this is an interview, this isn’t an intervention. No one here… the difference is, you’re talking with, basically, the pro-gamergate side as a whole, and you coming in as anti-gamergate, and I’m feeling that I’m being very fair and understanding on your side, I’m asking the proper questions and we’re discussing it openly, but I want to show you, at least on this point, if I can interject, that gamergate… you may think that gamergate is evil or inherently evil and that the people need to be gassed or genocidally taken out instrumentally/indiscriminately(?).  Here you are now, and we’re having a proper discussion, in my feel, on a platform so we can discuss this openly and we can get both sides of the story.  Do you see the same thing with that, or is that different for you?

GT: I have no complaints with how the interview has gone thus far.  I feel like I could have done a better job on some points, but overall I think it’s gone well.

KOP: Okay.  As long as you feel that I’m being fair, that is all I had to say.

GT: I mean, you disagree with me on points, but you’re being fair.

KOP: Okay, fair enough, fair enough.

Socks: I’m back.

KOP: Okay, Socks is back here, guys.  Now, Socks, I’m going to let you ask a few more questions and I’ll have you drop out so we can bring in Sargon.  I will moderating this, so if any of you guys get too heated or stuff, I will interject…

Socks: Absolutely.

KOP: to reestablish the point or on topic.  Allright, so go ahead, and if you have any questions, Geordie, with her as she asks you things, after you answer questions, you’re more than welcome to ask. So, go ahead, Socks.

Socks: Alright.  Um.  I did want to bring this back for a moment to Anita Sarkeesian and Feminist Criticism in video games.  I am a writer and a humorist.  I believe that the representation of women in video games is terrible.  I think we can both agree on that, yes?

GT: Yep.

Socks: Okay, my main criticism is that – well not my main criticism, I guess – but what I put forward to you is do you think that a good way of helping progress the portrayal of women in video games would be to hire actual writers who actually write a proper story?  Because, I think a lot of us, I mean, I’ve said this before, and a lot of people in gamergate agree with me, that the representation of women is shit, out of the gate, I won’t deny it, and that a good way to go about solving it would be to hire better writers.   Do you agree with that?

GT: I agree.  Can I make a quick comment?

Socks: yes.

GT: Okay, uh, I have seen, I really think, when you give something really obvious to someone with the gamergate tag, like, you don’t think, you, what do you think of the, portrayal of women, I think they’re easily going to be able to say terrible.  But I don’t think that any of them think that it’s that important to fix it.  Fix that?  And I don’t really think that… maybe the women feel that way, I don’t know.  I just think that… and here’s another thing that’s related, I’ve been called a ‘white knight’ about a million times.  ‘White knight’ is just a statement that ignorant people make.  RE: feminism, like, it’s ridiculous.

KOP: What’s the point you’re trying to make?

GT: The point I’m trying to make is she just said that a lot of people in gamergate agree that the portrayal of women is bad, and it’s really been my experience that a lot of them don’t care, and, you know, don’t give a shit that the portrayal of women is bad and they were more the sort of people who would look at the response to that, you know, that Hitman Trailer with the nuns in it and they would say “Why were you complaining about that?  That trailer was awesome.  It’s just a bunch of complaining assholes white knighting, blah blah blah.”

KOP: Right, but…

GT: I think there’s tons of people like that in gamergate.

KOP: K, fair assessment.  What if I told you it’s because people weren’t looking at it in a pseudopolitical or ideological way, they were looking at it as a form of entertainment and art?

GT: Uh.  That’s what I mean when I say that they don’t think it’s important.

KOP: Well, it’s probably because its… and to most people, for most gamers, they would take video games, for them, as a form of art & entertainment, like if you went to go see a movie.  It is art & entertainment.  Or if you read a book, it is entertainment and art.  Sometimes books can be intellectual properties, if they need to be, if you’re reading something like that, if that’s your taste, just as much as there can be (unintelligible) in games, documentaries, there have been historical games as well.  It just depends on your taste.  Once again, that’s art and entertainment and what you’re attracted to.  I just want to say, it goes back to the same question I made before, which is what’s stopping, at least the anti-gamergate side, or let’s say as an example, Anita Sarkeesian, as you will, from making the game that portays women in the right aspect instead of critiquing the free market, if you will, that has been around since… a long time, now, I would say for the most part.

GT: Okay.  I think the main problem with that is that it…  I would like more people to be political thinkers, um, and not just, vanish into a wasteland of only caring about the artistic side.  I think that too many people do that.  I think it’s an excuse that they make.  I think it’s the worst kind of, y’know, anti-intellectual garbage, just, to listen to someone say “That trailer is sexist” and then, y’know, look over at them and say “Can’t you just enjoy it? Fucking shut up”.

KOP: Okay, if I can interject.  Then if that’s the case, then why not make games that are educational to the subject at hand?  And not say that because, let’s say Bayonetta 2, “She’s so sexy, but she’s also a witch who can do magic who’s fighting figuratively fictitious ant-creatures and monsters that don’t exist in our world in a world that does not adhere to our world at all.”  You get what I’m saying?  That’s entertainment, but if you’re looking for what you’re talking about, Geordie, that’s still falls back to if that is what you want and you’re looking for, then why not make an educational game based off that so people understand it better?

GT: I’ll tell you why.  Because educational games suck.  You want an exciting action game like the best ones in our industry but you want it to contain, like, the correct message, and not just be vacant and stupid.

KOP: Fair enough.

Socks: That’s… that feeds back into hiring better writers and better staff.

GT: Yep.

Socks: Instead of treating the writing and the story aspect…  The reason why – this is what a lot of people do not understand – the reason why video games and blockbuster films are so filled with tropes is because they do not spend a lot of money and a lot of time on the actual dialogue, the writing and the story.  Now, that’s the problem.  That’s the big pervasive problem. It’s a lot cheaper to just take one of the archetypal stories, fill it with tropes – and tropes are tropes for a reason –  it’s because – and clichés are clichés for a reason – it’s because they’re instantly recognizable and relatable to Joe Shmoe, right?

GT: Yep.

Socks: That is exactly why you as writer should understand this.  This is exactly why they’re there.  You can make just, like, y’know, this wooden box hero and they can be instantly relatable to the viewer and engage them.  And that’s what it’s for, right?  Now…

GT: Can I make a quick comment?  I’ll try to be really fast and you can go back to what you were saying.

Socks: Go ahead.

GT: Okay, so, I definitely agree with a lot of what you were saying.  I think that, uh, it’s not a big problem – it’s not a problem to just hand everything to your artists and make, you know, your designers, and all of your programmers, if you are not, I don’t know, tackling subject matter that requires you to be politically aware, but if you have like a female main character anywhere or a female character anywhere, you’ve got to think about it in the same way that you would think about having an African American character.  Or you know, someone of any ethnicity.  You’ve gotta be sensitive to the current needs of that culture and write the character accordingly, and I think that they do that with minorities now.  But they don’t, and never do it, with women now, and they just exploit them.  Anyway, go ahead.

Socks:  I also… that comment feeds me back to the other point where… I don’t know if you can tell, but I’m not American.  I’m Australian.

GT: Okay.

Socks: Yeah.  Uh, and I’ve been playing video games since I was, what, 4?  I’m 29 now, so I’ve been playing video games for 25 years.  Um, and I know a lot of people in other parts of the world… gaming is global, is what I’m trying to say.  It is very popular in asia and Europe and a lot of the political –sociopolitical – issues you’re referring to are American-centric.  And that kind of Americentric attitude and view –which I get, because you’re obviously America – that kind of irritates the international gaming community to the point where it’s not really relatable to us.  Those struggles, those things are not relevant  to our societies.  Do you understand what I’m saying there?  Criticism of Bayonetta 2 from western, uh, critics, I guess?  Is a little unfair.  It’s not made by Americans, it’s not made by white people, it was made by a bunch of Japanese women and men.  It’s completely irrelevant to the American culture.

GT: No it’s not irrelevant, no it’s not, they’re selling it in America that has these concerns.  If the Japanese…

Socks: Yeah, they’re marketing it…

GT: If the Japanese put someone in the game and, you know, his name was Darkie, you wouldn’t say ‘It’s irrelevant, don’t worry about it’, they’ve gotta worry about what is in their fucking game.  And like, if they put an Australian person in the game who was fuckin the most stereotypical, y’know, “spoits, noice, roights,” Crocodile Dundee asshole you could think of…

Socks: But they do all the time…

GT: you’d probably be upset about that too.  Well, they shouldn’t.

Socks: I know, this is stupid, I don’t care.  I mean, that’s ridiculous, that’s a caricature and that’s no problem with me.  I mean, but that’s just me personally, but…  Anyway, I will drop out, unless you have any questions you want to ask me, that’s cool.

GT: Well, can I just say, I don’t think… I don’t have any problem with you not having a problem with a caricature of an Australian person because there’s not really historical, y’know, oppression that they’re likely to offend.  But if the…

Socks: I’m not a white Australian either, so, I come from a mixed ethnic background.  My country is very…  Multicultural.  I’m an ethnic minority here.  I would be moderately offended at some other things, but…

GT: Yep.

Socks: …that’s different.  Anyway, I will drop out.

KOP: Okay, Socks, I’ll talk to you later.  Thanks for coming in.

Socks: Yep, thank you.

GT: Goodbye.

KOP: I’m going to grab Sargon here, and I guess we’ll continue on from there.

GT: Alright.

KOP: I think he stepped away to grab his tea.

GT: (laughs) Someone just posted crocodile Dundee.

KOP: Yeah, I just saw that. (laughs)  If he will come back…  I think he might have gone to grab his tea; he said his kettle was going off.  He’s british by the way.

The transcript will resume when Sargon arrives on the stream.  Today’s posts represent the first hour of the audio.  I will try to get as much as I can of the second hour posted tomorrow. 

Geordie Tait Interview Transcribed – Pt 2

Disclaimer: I am offering, without commentary, the transcript of the Geordie Tait interview as a service to the Gamergate community and is not intended for commercial use.  As it is rather long, I will be posting it in installments.  I have faithfully transcribed the conversation to the best of my abilities and will attempt to complete the transcription so that the information is available in a timely manner.  The opinions and statements made by individuals within reflect their own opinions and ideas and are not reflective of Cirsova or any other individuals.  The transcription begins with Geordie Tait’s arrival on the stream and will end shortly after his departure.  The full audio interview can be found here.

King Of Pol: If Sargon’s not ready then I’ll…  Okay, Sargon’s not ready, I’m gonna bring Socks in here.

Geordie Tait: Who is this?

KOP: Socks?  This is Rina – Socks – she does daily videos on youtube of what’s going on in the gamergate world and what’s going on about it, just articles and stuff like that.  She does a pretty good job of it.  I usually do the daily news with her on a weekly basis.

GT: That sounds pretty cool.

KOP: She just wants to talk to you about it, and I’ll bring on Sargon right after.

GT: Alright.

KOP: What’s up buddy?

Socks: Hello.

KOP: Hey, socks. Socks, Geordie, Geordie, Socks.

Socks: Hello, Geordie.

GT: Hello.  Hey, I recognize that picture.  Someone with that anime picture has been telling me to fuck myself for weeks.  Probably the whole week.  I don’t’ know if it was you.

Socks: Not me.

GT: Okay. No big deal.

KOP: Okay, so, Socks, I know you had some questions for him in here I’ll let you go ahead and ask.

Socks: I did.  But first, I wanted to reference the Fine Young Capitalists, first I wanted to make clear that I put the… I will link it in the skype chat so you can do some reading if you want.  That’s totally up to you.  If you scroll down it details their reality, they believe in the patriarchy theory.  They are radfems, I’ve spoken with several of the members of the Fine Young Capitalists at length, and what they do have to say is that women are valuable and tech companies aren’t hiring them.  So, they’re trying to bypass that and promote women in video game production.

GT: That sounds great.

Socks: it is, and…

GT: How could they possibly be involved with gamergate, who are just such a giant group of woman-hating-assholes?

Socks: But we’re not a giant group of woman-hating assholes, it’s only your perception…

GT: You absolutely are.

Socks: Oh, I beg to differ.  Um, I do actually have a couple of questions for you if you don’t mind.  How in the same breath can you list actual real life issues that are affecting women all over the world and have been affecting women throughout history – I agree with you there – and, you know, one of the greatest tragedies to ever occur in the, you know, span of human history, to the greatest ethnic cleansing ever and then go on to advocate the return of those said death camps to be used against members of gamergate and to belittle, dehumanize and erase the thoughts and opinion and agency of thousands of women and minorities who do support gamergate on the basis of ethics of video games journalism and the industry as a whole?

GT: Well, it’s pretty simple.  I disagree with every one of Gamergate’s tenets.  I believe it’s an evil organization that is doing nothing but dragging women down.  Any feminists that are participating in it are basically sabotaging the overall cause, in my opinion.  And, for that reason, I am totally comfortable with saying give it, I’m fine with everyone in gamergate, you know, rolling off a cliff like a bunch of lemmings, and you know, unfortunately some of those people are going to be…

KOP: Geordie.  I don’t mean to interject, but can you explain how they’re evil though?  Did you find the links yet or anything you can show why we’re evil or explain in detail?  I think a lot of people want to know why we’re evil, if you think that way.

GT: If you guys don’t realize it, then me showing you is not going to make you realize it.

Socks: No, no, that’s not how, no no, I’m sorry, Geordie, that’s not how reality works.  If you are accusing us of being an evil organization – we’re not an organization, we are a consumer revolt; at best, we’re a movement in some cases, but an organization? No, and there’s no requirements for membership.  Anyone can walk up and slap a tweet up on twitter with the gamergate hashtag.  I have not seen any, like, what… Inherently evil or actively misogynistic tendencies from anyone in gamergate.

GT: Oh, wow, you have not seen any actively misogynistic tendencies from anyone in gamergate? I don’t even think…

Socks: No, I haven’t.  I have seen…

KOP: Hold on socks, hold on socks.

Socks:. …ignorant sexism, but go on.

GT: unbelievable.

KOP: Hold on.  If this is the case then that’s why I said ‘can you provide proof’, trust but verify.

Socks: Please.

KOP: Because if you can show us the misogynist and explain why it is evil, inherently evil misogynistic and give us an understanding.

GT: Let me just. Okay. What do you mean I?  I have to explain why misogyny is evil? It just is.

KOP: No…

Socks: No, no, we know misogyny is bad.

KOP: … I’m asking if you can show us…

GT: Alright, let me try, let me just take a quick look through the gamergate tag.

KOP: Okay, no problem.

Socks: Please, do.

KOP: That’s all I’m saying is if you can show us, and give us a link and say this is why you guys are evil, then it gives us a better understanding of what it is that makes gamergate evil.

GT: Let me try one thing first.  Would you say that it’s fair to say that gamergate generally is against the various efforts and statements of Anita Sarkeesian?

Socks: Anita Sarkeesian is intellectually dishonest and does present flawed feminist theory.  Just like Jack Thompson presented flawed theory on how video games perpetuate violence in society.  But it was totally fine to send Jack Thompson death threats and a lot of them actually actionable and he had to be under armed guard. But go on.

GT: What do you mean ‘But, go on’?

Socks: No, no, do go on, we do disagree, a lot of us disagree with what Anita Sarkeesian says, it is true that…

GT: Okay, in general, then gamergate…

KOP: Hold on.  Go ahead, Geordie.

GT: I believe that a lot of people.  When she asked for X amount of money and then out of nowhere people donated – does anyone remember what the final number was?

KOP: It was a little over 100k, go ahead.

GT: A little over 100k which just blew everyone’s expectations out of the water.  Now, me personally, and a lot of other people that I talked to thought that that was a sign of a silent majority that were so tired of just the general bullshit having to do, y’know, the, of women in video games, the many different shortcomings that needed to be rectified to have them as in the positions narrative, and, uh, otherwise that they should be.  So that’s why she got all that money.  I’m sure she was completely surprised by it and I’m sure that she didn’t have the expertise to use $100,000.  But I don’t care.

KOP: I just have to say, though, getting money doesn’t make your ideology right.  Lenin killed and took over and created communism, but that didn’t mean communism was right just because people thought it was a good idea at the time.

GT: Well, I think she’s right.  I think she’s right, so…

KOP: That’s a fair assessment, but that doesn’t mean it is right, just means you think that.

GT: Jesus Christ, I know that, that’s common sense, but I think it’s right.

KOP: What does  that…

GT: Because I think it’s right, and morally correct and very important and because you’re… the gamergate organization generally is against her efforts, and you know, has tried to sabotage her in various ways or, you know, I don’t know what I would call it. I’ve got to apologize because my vocabulary is not where it should be, not only have I been awake for 24 hours…

KOP: It’s okay, man, you don’t have to.

GT: Okay, so, let me just finish my point.  Because I believe she’s right, absolutely with all of my heart, I have no doubt, I’m not going to change my mind, no one can ever change it.  Because I believe that and because gamergate is, in general, against her efforts.  I believe gamergate is evil because I believe she is good.  I believe she is a force of absolute good and thus I believe gamergate is a force of evil.

Socks: okay, let me, for one second.

KOP: Hold on, socks, I have to ask… But Geordie, disagreeing with what Anita Sarkeesian believes in, her ideology or ideologue, that doesn’t mean that gamergate is evil.  They just disagree with what she has to say.

GT: No.  That’s Not true.  It’s not like she’s saying is saying that she enjoys sprite over 7up. She’s saying that women deserve X things that they’ve been denied, and gamergate is saying “No, they don’t, fuck ‘em.”

Socks: No, that is not what gamergate is…

KOP: She’s not really saying that, though.

GT: Again, that’s where we disagree again, I’m saying that you’re saying that.

KOP: Let’s not butter this, let’s be detailed.  She states that there is sexism in video games and the damsel in distress trope is a real thing, that if you play a game and save Princess Peach in that extent then you can be inherently misogynist or sexist in real life.  Now let’s use that in comparison of video game violence vs. real world violence; we had many studies on that by scientists and they were peer reviewed many times, over and over again, and actually suggested, studies showed many times over that it’s proof factual that the only thing that video games has ever adhered to is possible gambling addiction types or escapism and not any actual video game violence.  It actually curbed violence in statistical scores.

GT: Wait.  Good.  I agree.  It doesn’t cause violence.  But okay, where was the peer reviewed, show me the peer reviewed paper that studied misogyny.

KOP: Okay, give me a minute on that, Geordie.  I’ll pull up about 10 different statistics.  Socks, you can do it, while I’m discussing.  But what I’m saying is video games do not make people kill people in real life, why would me saving Princess Peach make me hate women or be sexist toward women or be misogynistic toward women in real life?  You can’t have your cake and eat it to, it does not work.

GT: Yeah, you…  I’m not having cake and eating it too, I’m.

KOP: It’s a metaphor.

GT: I know.  I’m using your same metaphor.  I know it’s metaphor.  Violence is, I’m having cake and I’m having, you know…

Socks: Oh, you guys, no, Jesus fucking Christ.  Here’s the line: if video games don’t make you a crazy psychopath, going out to kill people, how do they then make you a crazy misogynist out to oppress women?

GT: It’s more subtle than that.

Socks: How does it reinforce the patriarchy theory in society, then, how does it perpetuate that?

GT: It’s really straight forward.  I mean, it’s a straightforward and subtle, you know, impact on society.

KOP: You’re saying that violence in video game is nothing compared to being sexist and misogynistic. We can attribute misogyny to real world violence easily.  Look at domestic violence.  A prime example, if you want to be stereotypical, is “My dinner is cold, bitch,” or things like that.  But that is real world violence.

GT: Yep.

KOP: Because obviously the response to that would be, what. He would hit his wife, right?

GT: Yeah, but that’s caused by misogyny, not the video game.  0

KOP: What I’m saying is, if video game violence does not create real world violence, then games, you saving a princess, is not going to make you sexist or misogynistic or start…

GT: How do you know that, they’re two different things?

KOP: It’s not that very often, if one thing does not adhere to real world attribute, then another will not, it is kind of a blanket thing, you can look at it all the way down the (unintelligible), it doesn’t matter.  It doesn’t change anything.  Like I said, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.  If one thing does not do it, the other will not. It just doesn’t affect that.  Video games do not make you do things in real life unless you were already mentally unhinged.  It’s the same thing as I used with the John Lennon statement, what happened to him.  A book will not make you go out and shoot people if you read it unless you are mentally unstable to begin with.  Then there is a 3rd party involved, so you cannot just say that, it does not work that way.

GT: Well, I believe that there might be some sort of subconscious impact, but it doesn’t actually matter because the video games, just like the movies that have objectionable content in terms of misogyny or, you know, picture sets, or whatever the fuck.  Y’know, magazines.  They reflect society, they don’t create it, you know.

Socks: Exactly, I agree.

GT: Okay.

Socks: Art reflects society, yeah.

GT: Well that’s what she’s doing and, of course, it’s full of fucking bullshit.

KOP: But that’s art.

Socks: But it’s there because that’s what in our society.

GT: Yeah.  We should fix that.

Socks: Absolutely.

KOP: But to get back onto gamergate for just a second.  Geordie, you’re talking about Anita Sarkeesian’s stuff like that, and there’s a lot of things I have to say to that, and one thing I really want to know, from your opinion, since you said you follow her so much, is, you know, we live in a free market society; you know what a free market is?

GT: Uh, I have a basic idea.

KOP: A free market society system, which is what we have now in the US and many other places around the world, anywhere you really go, for the most part, means that whatever… the consumer dictates what the market is, i.e.  if I like your bread – say you have a farm and you make bread – if I like your bread, I will buy your bread.  If I don’t like your bread, I won’t buy it.  If it’s something that I want or I like, I will buy it.  And the market will dictate what the market dictates, meaning the consumer will dictate what they like and don’t like.  So, with that being said, anything can be thrown into the market, anything at all, anything is subjective, in the market to be tested and people can like it or dislike it depending on if they want it or not.

GT: Yep

KOP:  So that’s what the free market system is.  A lot of people say this all the time, but if there’s so many problems with video games, and just as there’s so many problems with gamers, and you guys, as Leigh Alexander’s article said “gamers are dead, gamers are over”, and you want a different demographic, you want a broader demographic, right?  From what I’ve interviewed, another anti-gamergate person, he said video game players, or gamers plus was another one, why not make your guy’s own type of video games for that (unintelligible)?  No one’s stopping you.  Just use the money and do it.  Wouldn’t that suggest that?  Since it is a free market, you’re allowed to do that.  No one’s going to tell you not to do that.  Why not just make your own video games to adhere to what you believe in?

GT: I mean, there’s lots of reasons for that.  I mean, there are publishers, right, you’re going to… you’re going to get more backing, better staff, etc., better distribution if you’re able to be distributed by a major game company, and if you’re game, that is, you know, “yay”.

KOP: Well, it’s…

GT: Yay, it’s good for us, they might not like that subject matter.

KOP: Well, let’s use Anita Sarkeesian for example.  She’s gotten tours at EA, she’s gotten awards, as you will, and all this other stuff for being so great.  I mean, she literally is affecting Mirror’s Edge 2, let’s be honest.  She changed the controlling aspect of it; they had to stop what they were doing to change the controls for it because she didn’t like how the controls felt.  She also tested the, uh, I can’t remember the name of it.  Oculus Rift or whatever.  I mean, I think that if she wanted it, it could have happened.  So, like I said, who’s stopping them or the anti-gamergate side from making the games that they’re so angry about.  There’s no one stopping them, so why not make them?  If the…

GT: Oh, god, you said there’s no one stopping us.  Take a look at the fucking chat.

KOP: Chat isn’t stopping you from making a game.

GT: Yeah, they are.

KOP: How? They’re just talking.  They can’t stop you.  If you want to go make a game based on….

GT: Oh, oh, really? Okay, well, I guess there’s no reason for anyone to, uh, say anything, you know, like, when I posted those essays on my facebook, immediately they became under review for having nudity in them, which they didn’t have.  Because people were trying to get the essays taken down.  And that is the way that gamergate affects anything they don’t like.

KOP: But do you have solid evidence that gamergate did that?  Did somebody use the hashtag in a tweet and say “look what I did”?

GT: I mean, I’m sure that it was someone with a similar mindset to gamergate.

KOP: But it’s assumption, not solid evidence, correct?

GT: Oh, for Christ’s sake, I can look at anyone in gamergate and know that they’re a fucking asshole.

Socks: Look at me.

KOP: Hold on, socks.

Socks: No.

KOP: I think we’re going to bring in Sargon here in a minute.

Socks: No, no, I have to leave if you bring Sargon in, dude, I’m not going to 3-way tag-team this dude, so…

KOP: No problem, I’ll let you ask a few more questions, Socks. But let’s take a quick break, because I’ve got to step up real quick and do something.

Socks: Yeah, Just wanna…

KOP: And then we’ll go, so I’ll be back in like 2 minutes, and we’ll come right back here.  That sound good for everybody?

Socks: Okay.

GT: Yep

KOP: Okay, cool, cool, we’ll be right back, guys.

Transcript will continue after return from 2 minute break/music interlude.

Geordie Tait Interview Transcribed – Pt 1

Disclaimer: I am offering, without commentary, the transcript of the Geordie Tait interview as a service to the Gamergate community and is not intended for commercial use.  As it is rather long, I will be posting it in installments.  I have faithfully transcribed the conversation to the best of my abilities and will attempt to complete the transcription so that the information is available in a timely manner.  The opinions and statements made by individuals within reflect their own opinions and ideas and are not reflective of Cirsova or any other individuals.  The transcription begins with Geordie Tait’s arrival on the stream and will end shortly after his departure.  The full audio interview can be found here.

KOP: Alright guys, so I’m back here, I know it’s early, so a lot of people are probably working; it is a work day.  So, we’re going to get Geordie Tait in here and I’m going to call him now and we’re going to discuss some of the things.  Hey, what’s up buddy, you there?

Geordie Tait: Yep, how’s my voice?

KOP: I think you sound pretty good, I think Chat can hear you pretty good.  How are you doing this morning?

GT: Well, I’ve been awake for a long time, but so have you, so I think we’re even.

KOP: Yeah, I have been.  So go ahead and before we start, why don’t you state your name and who you are and what you do and your stance.  I think it’s best we do that first.

GT: Alright, my name is Geordie Tait, I’m 34 years old, living in San Mateo, California. I’ve had a lot of different jobs since I was 18.  Uh, some of them having to with writing, some of them having to do with game design, some of them having to do with art production, some of them have to do with other stuff.  And my stance: I’ve seen a lot of sentiment that I’m irrelevant or whatever, and I understand why they would say that because there’s kind of some ‘ships that pass in the night’ stuff going on here in that I’m.. I guess I am kind of irrelevant to your stated goal of media straightforwardness and no shifty stuff going on because I believe that that’s irrelevant and what I really wish would happen is that gamergate as a whole would shift to, is that, just a generally less hostile attitude toward women – and I’m sure people are going scream and say “But we don’t have a hostile attitude toward women”, but I think in effect you basically do.  I think it’s nonsense to say otherwise.

KOP: Okay, so I think we’ve got an understanding on where your stance is on that point.  Now, obviously we had a little… we did talk a little bit before this and the first thing I think we should just jump right into is your original facebook post that you made to Starcitygames.com.

GT: Okay

KOP: Why don’t you explain that a little bit in detail for everybody until we can get a better understanding, and we’ll go through it along the way.

GT: Sorry, could you repeat that?

KOP: Why don’t you explain the context of it in detail and we’ll go through it along the way.

GT: Alright, here we go.  So, in the beginning, I thought that all that the…my author page specifically had been defeated –excuse me- deleted from Starcitygames.com where I was a columnist for a long time, 13 years.  And so, I just started it with a request to them that, you know, if you delete my author page, you might as well take all of my work off the site as well, y’know, no hard feelings.  But, it turns out I misunderstood what was going on.  They were having some sort of site redesign and the only way you could find anyone’s author page was by putting in a date range.  I had no clue, but anyway, so that turned out to be nothing.  And, uh.  Let’s see, let’s move along here.

KOP: So, okay, let me just kind of go through it now.  You, um, you that said you were going be frank (unintelligible), there’s no chance that you would ever change your stance in what you had to say in this.  Is that still true or is there any change that you would make thus far?

GT: No, there’s no changes I would make.  If anything, the things that have been said to me have only reinforce my belief of the general, you know, the general tenor of gamergate’s various participants, members,

KOP: Now, as I was going through this, I was reading this yesterday on my stream, yesterday I was going through it and I kind of lost you for a little bit because you jumped into what you suggested, uh, “the final solution”, and I’m going to read it here verbatim.

GT: Sure.

KOP: “I’m not the one making light of ‘the final solution’, in fact I’m using the suggested punishment fittingly because I honestly and without hesitation think that each and every one of these fucking assholes should be tossed into Treblinka.  Right now you’re probably gasping and saying ‘how dare you say such a thing?’”  Um, could you, I mean, why would you, why would that ever be a good idea? Just, out of curiousity, I mean, why would any time a genocidal talk would be a good idea to throw at something?  What is… where are you coming with this?

GT: Um, well, I mean, I consider Gamergate a, literally, an evil force, and, if I’m going to have the courage of my convictions, if someone was going to ask me the tough question“if you believe their evil, would you sanction their elimination?”  You know, would you believe that makes the world a better place? and the answer’s gotta be ‘yes’ or I’m just full of shit.

KOP: Okay, so you stated that, and you did mention things like gassing gamergaters or, y’know, letting take the cyanide, as you put it, and a lot of people are kind of upset about that – they’re upset about a lot of things in this, but – they’re really upset about that part, um, and ‘in my opinion’… you said that you think that gamergate is evil.  I mean, why do you say that?  I mean, there’s a lot of good that’s come out of Gamergate as much as there is as bad.

GT: Nope.  I don’t believe that even one good thing has come out of gamergate.

KOP: So, I can name one right off the top of my head, I mean, you can look at the Fine Young Capitalists and what they did.  $50,000?  Another time was when they donated for people who… with… I think it was suicide, wasn’t it?  It was either suicide or breast cancer, one of the two, and that was about $7,000.  I mean, I don’t know how you can say that, do you not remember those or did you never see those?

GT: Well, I’ve got to admit, I am not, um, as aware of those events as you seem to be.

KOP: Well, I mean, the Fine Young Capitalists was a big one.  They were the ones that stated that Zoe Quinn ruined their ideolo- their ideals, and their company, which was they were a radical feminist group, a gaming group, that makes games for female- for women in general – they put out the ideas and people vote on it and people will donate for that game, and apparently Zoe Quinn was, uh… did harass them and tore down their company and ruin them and defame them.  And they got no media light, they were shut out by the media, um, and 4chan of all places reached out to them and helped them reclaim that by donating $105,000 to help them fund a game for a woman.

GT: Okay, now I understand what the event that you’re talking about, um, I’m reading a little background information here.  I would, okay, so, if they’re self-described radical feminists, I would guess that they are… because you guys don’t hate them, I’m going to guess that they’re the people who, um, say that they don’t need help, it would weaken women to be given aid and…

KOP: I’m not sure following, what do you mean?

GT: Well, there’s no need…  there’s no need to demonize men, is that the main point of the Fine Young Capitalists?  I’m trying to figure out…

KOP: No…  the idea was that they were going to help the people, Literally Who or Zoe Quinn, however you prefer to call her, had ruined, in that sense, and this group that was radical feminists trying to help women and support women and show that women in video game industries are important.  And they proved that with $105,000 worth of donation money toward that to help them out.  I would say that their actions speak louder than their words in that aspect.

GT: Hmm

KOP: I don’t know, you could disagree, but that’s what it shows.

GT: I don’t feel that I know enough about, uh, their entire background in what they did to argue effectively with you.

KOP: No problem, okay, fair enough, fair enough, let’s move on from the next one. Uh, so you said, uh, in your article, let’s go down here…  Now you jumped straight kinda off the rails here, you kinda jumped straight to the 6 million jews.  You talked about 3 million being women themselves, and you kinda went on down a little bit into naming or listing things that women cannot do.

GT: Yep

KOP: Now you mention 50 billion women, and you kinda… and a lot of people maybe took it out of context, but you kinda said that ‘the suffering that women have had since for 11970 years, 119 centuries…’

GT: Approximately…

KOP: You claim that was because of men or gamergate?

GT: It wasn’t because of gamergate, like that’s just an example of something stupid that they would say or attribute to me in order to you know fire people up, but I..  It’s ridiculous to say it’s because of gamergate which didn’t exist for the huge share of that time.  I do think it’s because of men, though.

KOP: Go into detail, why do you think that men are responsible for the oppression.

GT: Men were in charge of everything, they set the laws, they, um, back when we were just a bunch of knuckle dragging chimps wandering around, they were responsible for forming the basis of the first societies and it all went from there, and since the very first moment of human existence women have not been equal with men, they’ve always been behind, and we’ve been, as a whole, pushing back against them ever since.

KOP:  So, you think that it was because back then that men controlled everything, including history, correct?

GT: Um, I would… I mean, I.. they basically controlled history, I guess, but I don’t think that’s significant, I would say that it’s significant that they controlled government, laws, religion, all that stuff.  They were, women were, the further back you get in history, the more women are just baby factories, probably illiterate, you know, that sort of thing.

KOP: Okay.  Now I know we did talk about this a little bit, I explained to you why you would suggest that men were more involved than women in the sense that what you were saying and how really… and I would have to correct you, historically, at least 11000 years ago, in civilizations and medieval times and before them, the men who did everything, as you said made society, were builders or forgers or anything like that, and women were known as the gatherers, and they still kind of are today, we still see the social stigmas of that.  The prime example today would be, uh, a man, as myself and many others, I don’t know about you, but many guys can say this, when I go to the store, say Walmart, and I go and buy something.  I go to Walmart not to look around or shop, but to go for what I want and come home.  Right, most guys do that.  A woman will either go to the store to shop or shop for clothes, go with their friends to go shop, and things like that, they’ll do different things, it’s a type of foraging, right?  Naturally and instinctually.  Even then back then, women were the caretakers and the foragers of the times, and they were the gatherers, while men were, as you said, the builders.  Our strength and our status kind of raised us to be men, that it was nature vs nurture at that point, that’s just how we’re built.  We’re stockier and stuff like that.  Men were also the ones who fought the wars and they were never home, but, during the times they were never there, women took care of everything else.  They took care of the children, the took care of the livelihood, they did the work, they did the job, they had to get money somehow and do things to get money.  If you want to talk about more recently, we can look at ww2; men fought the war of ww2, and for America, women did all the labor and the backwork for men.  They worked and they built the cars, they built the bullets, they built the plane, they did everything that was industrial and they had… they were way ahead of the times, when men came back, with their money, women had just amount of money, if not more experience and money, as the men did who came back from war.  Just to give you an example, but the point of what I’m trying to make is, to say that men and women have never had this equal footing is kind of arbitrary.  It’s a little much.  It’s a little blanket statement, it’s a little vague, and I hope you understand that in that point.

GT: No, I’m sorry, I don’t agree with you.  I think that it’s true that there’s never been equal footing.  Y’know, I don’t know what to say besides that.  Can I ask you a question?

KOP: Yeah, go ahead, sure.

GT: I was just sort of sitting around here preparing for the interview and I heard you burst into laughter at the sight of something someone said in the chat, and I was wondering if you could repeat out loud what it was, the name that you laughed at.

KOP: Oh, sure, let me scroll up, um, I know that someone was making a joke about your name.

GT: Yep.

KOP: What about it?

GT: Can you read it out loud?

KOP: Uh, sure, hold on if I can find it.  Someone repost it for me, cuz it goes down.  Actually the guy who said it (unintelligible), you can repost it.  But uh, it had a little quote in your name.  Is it important to justify that?

GT: I just want…  I’m just saying you laughed and got some enjoyment out of reading that.

KOP: Well, it was a funny name.  I’ve gotten different names as well, King of Friendzone, King of Cuck, King of Shills, if you want to go through it, we can go through it, it’s nothing, just a name, man.  It’s not that important what people make fun of.

GT:  But all I’m saying is it has something to do with the Holocaust and you had no problem laughing at it.

KOP: Actually, it didn’t, it was ‘Geordie “pullin the trigga on all the niggas” Tait’, but it had nothing to do with the Holocaust at all.

GT: Well, I mean, okay…

KOP: It’s irrelevant at the point, people make jokes at everybody all the time, it’s just society.  You can’t just demonize everything or be offended by everything that comes out of people’s mouths.

GT: I’m not.  I’m not offended at all.

KOP: Okay.

GT: I’m the one who is making the jokes about, you know, various things involving the Holocaust…

KOP: that’s fine

GT: …because I believe you should be able to do that.  But, y’know.

KOP: Well, that’s fine, that’s you, I’m just saying it’s not a big deal, I’ve been called plenty of names, trust me.  I just got done dealing with a lot of drama myself, so.  So, anyway, back onto the gamergate stuff in your article.

GT: Yep, okay.

KOP: You cited stuff out of the Bible as examples of what was going on with women.  Do you kind of want to touch on that a bit? I mean, you did mention religion.

GT: Yeah.  What do you want me to..

KOP: I don’t know, I mean why would the Bible be a good source to show how women were oppressed or understood?

GT: Because it’s one of the major building blocks of the most popular religion, you know, one of the most popular religions in history and it’s filled from front to back with women being used as chattel and stoned to death, the rules that say that they can’t, they can’t, y’know if you lay with an animal you get killed or whatever, you know, stuff like that.

KOP: But let me ask you this, that’s a problem with… why is it okay to make jokes about the Holocaust, out of curiousity?

GT: Well, I wasn’t making jokes about Jews, that’s the key things.

KOP:  What’s the difference?

GT: There’s a huge difference.  I was making jokes about gamergate.

KOP: Right, but you’re referencing gamergate with the holocaust, that’s… that’s… the Holocaust, if you take the Holocaust as political correctness, the Holocaust is about massacring genocide of the Jewish people.  So just saying Holocaust is making a reference to Jews.

GT: Yeah, I guess in a way, but I wasn’t making… certainly I wasn’t talking about, you know, Jews getting burned.  I was talking about the members of gamergate being incinerated, which I think is justified.

KOP: Why is genocide ever justified, out of curiosity?

GT: Because these are literally evil people who are making people’s lives worse just by existing.

KOP: Okay, give me some examples, some links maybe, something I can show that these people are so evil that they needed to be genocided, at least something that would, you know, I can understand that, I can understand the concept of ‘Listen and Believe’, but I also understand the concept of ‘Trust but Verify’.

GT: Yup.

KOP: And I would want to trust it, but you’ve gotta verify it with me and everybody else, so that we understand that we are…

GT: I really think that, you know, I mean it’s so obvious to me, I just feel like you must not be looking for it.  You must be just ignoring 90% of what the members of gamergate say, cuz it’s…

KOP: I’m not, I’m just saying can I get some links and stuff to show to the chat why we’re, why gamergate, is evil?

GT: I could try and find some. I didn’t actually prepare any.  I could have.

KOP: No, no problem, we don’t have to rush it.  Just look while we talk, it’s no big deal.

GT: Alright, I’ll try.

KOP: Okay, so, going down into this, you said something that was, okay… I gotta go through all this, so much you said… Okay.  I had to take this out of context.  “You know everything about women’s rights that life as a /k/ forum troll, a shitty asvab score and a skimming of Atlas Shrugged while Jerking off in the bathroom of at chick-fil-a has taught you.  Yes, I mean you Adam Baldwin.”  Just, can you clarify why Adam Baldwin is any of that?

GT: Adam Baldwin is a fucking dick.  Even if he’s not any of that he’s a fucking dick, but…  Okay, a /k/ forum troll, what I mean is like a gun enthusiast.  A Shitty ASVAB score is just a joke at the expense of someone who is trying to get into the military.  Skimming of atlas shrugged while jerking off in the bathroom of chick-fil-a is, you probably know the owner of chick-fil-a is, y’know…

KOP:  Well, they’re Christian, they’re hardline Christian.

GT: Hardline Christian fucking piece of shit.  You know, republican.  And Atlas Shrugged, self explanatory for why that’s stupid.  So, I mean, that’s it, it’s just one long running insult.

KOP: Okay, so I’m going to read this next thing you said.

GT: Yep.

KOP: “The bottom dwelling complete idiot neckbeard loser piece of motherfucking shit tacobell breathing wheezing greasy iphone dialing tank ass putting mayonnaise on dental floss scumbag, the guy doublefisting memes and cheese slices, the guy making a custer’s revenge sprite in minecraft, the guy who has never written or produced anything worth a damn in a pitiful chair compacting back of neck wiping life.”  Now, I’ve gotta say… You said that gamergate is very evil.  Would you say that they bully people and harass them?

GT:  Are you trying to draw a comparison between that and that paragraph?

KOP: A little bit, but I’m just saying do you not see the difference?

GT: I do see the difference.

KOP: What’s the difference between what I read, where you generalize all of gamergate as this in such a detailed way.

GT: and bullying and harassment?  Well bullying and harassment necessarily usually is at the expense of someone who is uh…  what’s the word I’m looking for here.  Someone who is having a hard time already.  Socially downtrodden person.  The example I would use is a woman in our society who is, has so many more obstacles to deal with than a man.  So, you know, that…

KOP: Sorry, I don’t mean to interject, but when you say a woman has more obstacles in our first world society than a man does, can you give me some examples?

GT: Yeah, well, they’re dealing with the ghost of a lot of inequalities and inequalities that still exist and you can scroll up to that giant list of stuff that I listed.  Some of that stuff.  Well, some of the stuff on that list is an example of the inequalities that women suffer.  And of course the area where there’s overlap between gamergate and me the most is the women treatment in media the way they’re portrayed.  The way that you know young girls have to encounter these examples of media that dictate how they grow up.

KOP: So, you’re saying in a first world country the stuff you listed happens on would you say a daily basis, weekly, monthy?

GT: Uh, you know, minute-ly.

KOP: Minute-ly?  Alright, so I’m going to read some of them out loud and then we’ll talk about them.  Is that good?

GT: Yep, sure.

KOP: ” In some countries not leave their own home without being stoned to death.”  I don’t know about you, but in America I don’t think when a woman walks out her door she’s gonna get stoned to death.

GT: Yep, not applicable to America.

KOP: What country are you referring to?

GT: Iran.

KOP: Well, that’s a 3rd world country that has real feminist-y problems, but how does that reference to gamergate at all?

GT: What do you mean, how’s that a reference to gamergate?  Like, this is just generally.  Like this is an example.  Let me say this: it’s an Islamic country, right?  There’s a lot of Islamic people in the united states, which is a 1st world country and in other first world countries.  So the GHOST of the edicts that allowed people to hand her son a stone and have her killed by her own kid, the remnants of that are still… exist in the holy books that people are using in America.  And you can’t tell me there’s not some leakage there, it doesn’t just cut off and like…

KOP: But there’s a difference between reading a book and actually acting on it, you know what I mean?  Prime example would be what happened to John Lennon.  There’s a difference between reading a book and acting on it.  There we have common sense and common sense would dictate that.  There’s a massive margarine line where you don’t walk out your door and stone someone to death because you read a book.

GT: Yeah, I would agree, but you can… the lack of respect and lack of humanity you attribute to a female that allows the book to even have those words written in it and pervades the book and the chapters surrounding it.  That chapter, the ones after it and the ones before it, they are in your head, and that is what you teach to your kid.  And it just keeps going and going and going.

KOP: Well, that’s 1st amendment rights, that’s freedom of speech…

GT: Yeah.

KOP: …you can’t stop it as long as it doesn’t harm others in any way.

GT: It does harm others, it harms women.

KOP:  It doesn’t just harm women though, there’s plenty of people harmed by many things, but you can’t say that a book harms just a woman.  It doesn’t really work that way, we know that as a society.  You don’t’ have to reenact what happens in a book, and anyone who does is obviously mentally unstable.

GT: I’m fine with some splash damage if other people are helped by the elimination of everyone’s Koran or, you know, that’s fine with me.

KOP: But..

GT: What?

KOP: Let’s take it out of context from the Koran. So you say that all these things happen to women on a minute-ly basis, though we know the majority of what you’ve linked happens in 3rd world countries where womens rights are still being fought today.  But not in the majority of countries.

GT: I mean that’s the cradle of civilization, I mean, we all came from there.  Like the rem.. the echoes of all of that is still massive in our media and our laws and our culture.

KOP: I have to stop there, because it’s (unintelligible) echoed in our culture and our laws, and you don’t (unintelligible) you know a suggestion on the media, I’m not turning on Fox News and their advocating going to stone a woman to death or not letting her drive her car.  We have laws against everything about that, we have bills of rights and everything like that.  My boss, a director who makes 10 times more money than I do who runs a hospital, is a woman.  There’s plenty of women, the woman who runs intel that Gawker Media slammed across the floor.  She’s a woman.  The majority…

GT: So?

KOP: What do you mean so?

GT: I mean so? Who fucking cares?  That doesn’t mean shit.

KOP: Obviously you do, because you say that…

GT: No it doesn’t.

KOP: You just said you’re about for women and all these women have problems and I’m showing you examples of that’s not the case.

GT: Those are just examples of women who are in high positions.

KOP: Right, okay, but that doesn’t mean anything, that’s still a woman who worked her way to get there, that’s what I’m saying.

GT: Sure.

KOP: Look at divorce court rating.  Women win way more than a man does any time and the majority always goes to the woman, it’s dictated in the law.

GT: Oh, my god.

KOP: It’s true, you can’t deny it.

GT: I mean, I deny it.

KOP: I guess you can, but I mean, it’s still there, it’s a fact, at least in American society, women will win that half the time and they’ll still get the alimony and men will get hurt much more.  There was an article not too long ago about a guy who got completely screwed and his wife was a meth addict and he wasn’t.  It happens regularly, it happens a lot.  Divorce court systems are a very big problem.  Aside that, back onto gamergate…  I’m just saying there’s more to it than what you’re suggesting is all I’m saying, so just keep an open mind on that part, whether you believe it or not.

GT: There really isn’t. There’s not more than what I’m suggesting at all.

KOP: Okay.

GT: This is all just deflection.

KOP: I guess, we were just discussing it, but we can move on.  All right, let’s see.  You made some… I’m going to read this out loud… actually I’m going to go down a little bit more.

GT: Go ahead.

KOP: “And you, the self hating gal(?) who internalizes everything her dumbfuck friends have shoveled down her sack and calls it a unique world view due to little more than pride and self importance fuming at hearing me say that you’re actually a feminist, sorry but you’re not. Tough shit.  If you’d listen to me, I’d be happy to explain to you what’s up, but you never have any intention of listening because you want to feel like the special little snowflake of your guild full of maladjusted ADD cases.  Notyourshield.”  When you said “Gal” were you referring to women or were you referring to Notyourshied?  I didn’t understand when I was reading that.

GT: I was referring to, like, an exaggerated example woman who I’m making fun of in this paragraph.  It’s pretty simple.

KOP: Was it Notyourshield, though, or was it a specific…

GT: Well, it’s typical of the people…  Maybe it’s possible that I misinterpreted it, what the membership not… membership of Notyourshield is.  But I thought that it’s feminists who nonetheless agree with gamergate.  Isn’t that Notyourshield?  Isn’t that what Notyourshield means?

KOP: No, Notyourshield is minorities and disabled people, transgendered, LBGTQ and feminists and other stuff like that, who…

GT: That’s close enough.  In this case, I’m talking about a feminist.

KOP: Okay, so in this case… how can you say that they’re not feminists if they relate to feminism and they say openly that they’re a feminist.  Isn’t that you kind of mansplaining to them what they are when they tell you they’re not?

GT: Yeah, they would probably say that, but again, I’ve gotta have the courage of my convictions, I mean, I’ve talked to like dozens, dozens of people who would, you know, agree with my assessment that they’re… they might claim to be a feminist but in practice they’re not accomplishing anything at all.

KOP: But isn’t that arbitrary?  You’re telling them what they are when in fact they’re telling you who they are?  Isn’t that kind of dictating who the person is?

GT: I mean, I’m saying that, you know, I’m not saying anything bad about the Holocaust and people don’t seem to agree with that, so it really doesn’t matter what you say about yourself.

KOP: Okay, alright, fair enough.  Would you mind if I brought in Sargon of Akkad here.  He wants to ask you a few questions, is that okay with you?

GT: Not at all, bring him on.

KOP: Okay, I’ll see if he’s ready.  I appreciate you being in here, man, it takes balls to come on and discuss these things.

GT: It’s no problem.  This chat is full of the dumbest collection of motherfuckers I’ve ever seen.

KOP: Jesus, man.  Alright, man.  I told you they were going to be pretty pissed off at you.  I warned you.

GT: Yeah.  I really don’t give a fuck what they think, so it doesn’t really matter.

Interview will continue with part 2 when Socks joins the conversation.